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Old 20-02-2011, 18:51   #1
andy_thomas
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Which Head Gasket ?

Its looks like my 05 R25 has got the curse of the K series and has got the begins of HGF. While changing the IMG today I discovered traces of mayo in the oil (but not the water) so I think the head gasket is on the way out.

Which gasket do I replace it with (avoiding the cheap ebay ones!!) ? If you uses the uprated 2 part MLS gasket do you also need to uprate the oil rail ?

Or do I go for a standard Payen BW750.

Also whats the best advice on head bolts, they have never been off before so am I safe to reuses them ?

Thanks

Andy.
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Old 20-02-2011, 19:09   #2
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I just rebuilt mine using cheap stuff off ebay 'only time will tell'

everything fit, looked good too! I got a kit including bolts and dlivery 47 quid, also did the pump 13 quid 's year guarantee and cam belt kit 52 inc post. Mine had bent a couple of valves so did them all 38 quid and as a matter of course did the hydraulic tappets too 57 quid... much cheaper than my citroen stuff

I made sure everything was spotless so not to give the cheap gaskets an excuse The bolts didn't feel like monkey metal while torquing them down

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Old 20-02-2011, 21:21   #3
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How the hell did you get your stuff so clean!!!? I've just taken mine apart and they need a jolly good clean... Tips?!
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Old 20-02-2011, 22:13   #4
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you will need a non uprated head gasket as the multi layer ones are frankly worse!!
also yes you must change the head bolts as these are designed to strtch and once removed are useless
i would also do the cambelt as you have to remove the old one anyway and as the head is off do the thermostat as this can sometimes get clooged up if you get hg failure
so your list is
head gasket (standard)
head bolt set
cambelt
tensioner (auto one)
thermostat
oil
oil filter
exhaust manifold and inlet manifold
plus on top of that it might be a good idea to skim the head as it increases the lifespan of the new gasket too many people just bung on a new one and 12 months later are scratching their heads when the thing fails again!!
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Old 20-02-2011, 22:54   #5
1955diesel
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Sorry to disagree, but the MLS gasket represents a big improvement over elastomeric and the head bolts only require replacement if already reused a couple of times.
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Old 21-02-2011, 00:00   #6
Ayrton19
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John's the man in the know MLS is the way to go... (unintended rhyming pattern)

It's pointless to replace with another elastomer gasket knowing that the new MLS one was designed to specifically overcome the problems of the previous gaskets... Re use your bolts! ^^ isn't true. They can be re used and are not 'useless' once removed. They only become useless if they have been over stretched, which is very unlikely if it's the first time you have taken them out. Haynes has a guide of measurements if you want to be a 100% sure they are still good to go but are likely to be anyway.

If you have to replace the bolts, buy decent quality grade ones. Cheapy eBay bolts run the risk of snapping inside the head during the tightening sequence. Disaster! so avoid it and buy good ones! But as said, it's recommended against and the originals should be re used wherever necessary

And if you are going to skim, for goodness sake go with the MLS gasket which comes with the space saver shim to compensate for the skimming process. We've been having a discussion about whether my head needed skimming and the pictures can be found at 'to skim or not to skim' in a search. If yours looks anything like that it's worth a skim
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Old 21-02-2011, 07:12   #7
andy_thomas
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So can I use the MLS gasket with out changing the bottom end and is the tightening sequence still the same ?

Also which is the best make / source.

The head has not been cooked as I caught the failure at an early stage and the car has never over heated so the head should be straight.

Thanks

Andy.
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Old 21-02-2011, 07:45   #8
Ayrton19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_thomas View Post
So can I use the MLS gasket with out changing the bottom end and is the tightening sequence still the same ?

Also which is the best make / source.

The head has not been cooked as I caught the failure at an early stage and the car has never over heated so the head should be straight.


Thanks

Andy.

Yeah your fine to not change bottom end. I'm not with mine. Just a matter of personal choice. I mean if you've got the cash, then go for a new oil rail as well. If not just keep your current one. Tightening sequence remains the same. 20nm I believe then 180 degrees followed by another 180? Someone else will confirm that... Haynes has it I can double check if need be.

Reisse gaskets are good. They come with the highest grade head bolts (if you were gonna replace) and the whole gasket comes with a 2 year warranty. I didn't buy that one as I didn't have 100 spare. You can get that set off eBay for 80 includes everything bolts gaskets etc... But if your just replacing the gasket just go for a MLS one. Plenty around. Go to eBay and search for Howards Honda. They stock loads of original MG Rover parts and at great prices. I believe they have an actual Rover certified gasket set again for the same sort of price as the Reisse one. Really, for quality you won't be looking at less than 80ish. But you can pick up cheaper gaskets it's just up to you what you want to get.


Mine never overheated either, but still had quite considerable pitting in the head face. Make sure you check it. It's a given if it doesn't need doing don't do it. But I wasn't planning on skimming mine but after close inspection I'm glad I did.
Dan
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Old 21-02-2011, 08:01   #9
knoxy25
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head gasket

Hi i used to work for rover, you dont need to replace headbolts, only use the uprated gasket, dont need to change the ladder, settings are 20nm then 180 then 180 again, dont skim head unless needs to be done can sometimes cause more probs if firering marks are deep then skim, dont need to replace thermostat unless gone oil in water and is blocked, change cambelt and all other gaskets would also do coolant elbow gasket.
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Old 21-02-2011, 08:15   #10
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Thanks for the advice, its always good to get a second opinion.

Theres no oil in the water so I will leave the cooling system well alone. Its already had a good flush out after changing the IMG yesterday and discovering the problem.

I'll start the strip down tonight and see what I find. Until its fixed is back to my classic Triumph Toledo which has come out of hibination early as my daily run around.

Andy.
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Old 21-02-2011, 08:22   #11
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help

any probs just let me know and will help the best i can.
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Old 21-02-2011, 08:29   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_thomas View Post
Which gasket do I replace it with (avoiding the cheap ebay ones!!) ? If you uses the uprated 2 part MLS gasket do you also need to uprate the oil rail ?

Or do I go for a standard Payen BW750
You have 3 basic options for the new gasket:

1. The standard SLS (elastomer) gasket - make sure it is one of the newest design which has a reinforced elastomer bead (the bead has a 'toothed' appearance along its edge); there are still a lot of the earlier design gasket about on which the elastomer beading is smooth). (The most common time for the original gaskets to fail is around 70000 to 90000 miles, and there is no reason why a replacement shouldn't last a similar time - potentially the replacement could last to 140000 to 180000 miles on the clock - by which time the rest of the car may well be at the end of its time anyway?)

2. The original design MLS gasket set (sometimes referred to as 'the Land Rover gasket'. This can be fitted without the stronger oils rail (although some mechanics do recommend its use). There have still been a few repeat failures with these however, which may be down to poor fitting or the cause of the original failure not being rectified. It is also possible that if the liner 'stand proud' is significantly below the recommended height or is uneven, the MLS type may not be as effective because the steel gasket isn't able to compress to take account of this in the same way as the elastomeric one.

Both the above use the original spec bolts tightened in sequence to 20Nm + 180 degrees + 180 degrees.

3. The XPart/MG Motor so-called 'ultimate fix' MLS gasket kit (ZUA000530); this is very similar to the other MLS, but has no fire rings and is all in one piece (no seperate shim), and only comes in a kit with an uprated oil rail and higher tensile bolts, the whole of which XPart say must be used. The higher tensile bolts in this kit have a different tightening proceedure from the other gaskets - 20Nm +180 degrees + 135 degrees. It is also very expensive at about 220 for the kit (which only comprises the MLS head gasket, the bottom oil rail and the bolts)

Last edited by Man in the Car; 28-11-2013 at 21:32.
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Old 21-02-2011, 08:50   #13
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The xpart would be the way to go for me.
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Old 21-02-2011, 11:58   #14
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I've gone for the genuine MG Rover MLS gasket so fingers crossed I do not find any suprises.

Thanks for all the very useful advice.

Andy.
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Old 21-02-2011, 12:42   #15
Ayrton19
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Originally Posted by andy_thomas View Post
I've gone for the genuine MG Rover MLS gasket so fingers crossed I do not find any suprises.

Thanks for all the very useful advice.

Andy.
Did you buy it from Howards Honda, as I suggested earlier?
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Old 21-02-2011, 13:05   #16
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man in the Car View Post
You have 3 basic options for the new gasket:

1. The standard SLS (elastomer) gasket - make sure it is one of the newest design which has a reinforced elastomer bead (the bead has a 'toothed' appearance along its edge); there are still a lot of the earlier design gasket about on which the elastomer beading is smooth). (The most common time for the original gaskets to fail is around 70000 to 90000 miles, and there is no reason why a replacement shouldn't last a similar time - potentially the replacement could last to 140000 to 180000 miles on the clock - by which time the rest of the car may well be at the end of its time anyway?)

2. The original design MLS gasket set (sometimes referred to as 'the Land Rover gasket'. This can be fitted without the stronger oils rail (although some mechanics do recommend its use). There have still been a few repeat failures with these however, which may be down to poor fitting or the cause of the original failure not being rectified. It is also possible that if the liner 'stand proud' is significantly below the recommended height or is uneven, the MLS type may not be as effective because the steel gasket isn't able to compress to take account of this in the same way as the elastomeric one.

Both the above use the original spec bolts tightened in sequence to 20Nm + 180 degrees + 180 degrees.

3. The XPart/MG Motor so-called 'ultimate fix' MLS gasket kit (ZUA000530); this is very similar to the other MLS, but has the shim already bonded to the main gasket, and only comes in a kit with an uprated oil rail and higher tensile bolts, the whole of which XPart say must be used. The higher tensile bolts in this kit have a different tightening proceedure from the other gaskets - 20Nm +180 degrees + 135 degrees. It is also very expensive at about 220 for the kit (which only comprises the MLS head gasket, the bottom oil rail and the bolts)
Track this topic (head gasket problem) for a long time. With this thread is all still "fuzzy". I got the impression that when the time is replacing the head gaskets, it is better to choose a variant of the MLS. Here (MLS) option is not checked the best. At least I got that impression.
I would love that more people comment on this again ... for the umpteenth time.
If you can set up once again on what is required in order to successfully do the head gasket failure.
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Old 21-02-2011, 13:59   #17
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my personal advice

ive been workin on rover k series for many years and have found from experience that any oe or equivalent headgasket will do the job.the main thing is to ensure both head and block are spotless and oil free on assembly.any oil or coolant contamination will not allow the bonded silcon to seal the head to the block and can cause failure. the old saying cleanliness is next to godliness stands for all repairs if you wish them to last!!
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Old 21-02-2011, 14:01   #18
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Originally Posted by Ayrton19 View Post
Did you buy it from Howards Honda, as I suggested earlier?
My local MG Rover dealer who I brought the car new from have done me a good deal on the MG Rover MLS gasket.

Thanks for all the advice, I will update the thread with what I find.
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Old 21-02-2011, 21:17   #19
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The heads now off after 2 1/2 hours. All looks OK and the piston liners are flush with the block. In the end it came off with any any struggle. There is no obvious signs of where the failure was so I must have caught it very early.

Now for the cleaning, checking and reassembly.

Andy.
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Old 21-02-2011, 22:07   #20
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.....and the piston liners are flush with the block.
Not a good sign, looks as though the liners have sunk.

The recommendation is that the liners should have a 'stand proud' of 3 to 4 thou, and although you can get away with a little less than this, they need some protrusion for the head to effectively clamp the gasket fire rings onto.
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